It’s not that I don’t like Fiction. I appreciate a good work of Fiction but I love Non-Fiction. I guess that’s why when it comes to God I can only eat truth and particularly truth (and not the lie of the male-tradition) about the garden.
The Church knows Adam was present in Genesis 3:1 through 3:6 yet for the sake of CREATING, PARADING, and PROMOTING a false PERFECT male we are supposed to pretend that he wasn’t. We are supposed to ignore word in Genesis 3:6 stating that she gave also to her husband with her. It’s as if the “unto her husband with her” part has no meaning in the English language…like we are perfectly incapable of interpreting the obvious – our Adam was there! He was elusive, he was silent, and he certainly failed to come to the aid of the woman, but he was there.
However, we can’t acknowledge that Adam was there because doing so of course would necessitate a conversation about what it MEANS that he was there and yet ELECTED to remain silent at such a crucial time in the life of Eve! Even more than that, this is the same man who would lodge accusation (even against God) against her…the nerve! He knew the fruit could be touched only not eaten AND he was present during the temptation of Eve, choosing to say nothing and to instead bide his time until the female ACTUALLY DID eat the fruit. Peradventure it was because, only after the female ate the fruit, should she survive it, that our Adam would know that God was indeed a liar!
Adam proved willing to gamble with the very life of Eve! We don’t discuss it, we don’t talk about it, most would never even DARE ask about it (but I do and have –have you ever seen a deer in headlights? That’s the look you get!) yet the truth is the only “voice” Adam “hearkened” unto was the voice of his still living wife! Adam did not obey Eve in the sense of eating the fruit because SHE SAID SO. Adam obeyed the still living voice of a female who he well expected to drop dead before him if the word of God was true, but she didn’t, and because she didn’t Adam then “hearkened” unto what the sound of her still living voice meant–that he too could safely eat the fruit!
Second to the accusation cast against God, this is what makes Adam’s words in Genesis 3:12 so outrageous, “The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.” Adam, really? What happened to YOU interceding on her behalf and correcting the misinformation she makes it clear she believes in Genesis 3:3, that the fruit could be neither TOUCHED or EATEN. Well, I ask…who told Eve that the fruit could be neither touched or eaten and if this was indeed the first time Adam heard such a thing…how could he STAND remaining silent? God simply and plainly commanded Adam in Genesis 2:17 not to EAT the fruit saying, “But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
EAT. EAT. EAT. “Thou shalt not EAT of it” is all the word says from the Almighty God. So Adam not only failed to interfere in the downfall of Eve at the moment when she was sure to eat the fruit…he didn’t even speak the word of God as it was given when he KNEW she was operating with FALSE information! The only reason why Adam would fail to react to the misinformation she demonstrates in Genesis 3:3 is because Adam, being led by the serpent, was actually the ORIGIN of it and clearly in on the deception! I have had to stomach hearing that Eve was purposely speaking a lie to the serpent in Genesis 3:3. But what sense does this make? Adam was standing right by her side, how could she have thought to get away with such a lie as that before the very man who was the ONLY ONE God spoke the original command to? But no! Eve spoke the truth as she received it from Adam and this is why Adam DID NOT interfere in her thinking…or what she was even speaking. Tell the truth about it someone, please.
But what does it all mean? That Adam was complicit in her down fall? That a selfish, power and position-seeking Adam was already FALLEN and entrapped by the lure of the serpent LONG BEFORE the deception and subsequent fall of the female? That Adam had motives deeper and darker than the Church has ever acknowledged? That Adam was ANYTHING but perfect…perhaps like Eve, just faulty and human?
Yes, it sure does.
um, this is really confusing. Are you stating that Adam is the reason Eve sinned?
No, Eve is ultimately responsible for her sin. I am saying that Adam operated in defiance of God and against the best interests of his wife Eve. Adam was present and willingly withheld information which he knew she required in order to make a fully informed decision about eating the fruit. Adam had a host of issues which the church refuses to address.
If you are:
scripture states that the woman was deceived she gave the fruit to Adam. Adam wasn’t deceived. (that doesn’t make his sin “greater,” there is no points scale for sin). They BOTH ate. They BOTH broke God’s command to not eat the fruit. They BOTH hid themselves (because they were ashamed), God told them a punishment would have to be made for THEIR sin (not just his, not just hers) a lamb was sacrificed and they had to leave the garden (with their respective curses) for the rest of their lives.
The point is, It doesn’t matter who was there. If it was me, you, a woman, a male, we all would have done the same thing. Because we are just as screwed up as they were.
Adam blamed Eve; Eve blamed the serpent. We all try to justify our sin. But it is nevertheless sin.
This is written from a perspective which rejects subjection of the female, a practice historically and today still predominately accepted by the church, all based upon the garden teaching, so it does matter where Adam was. It matters that he knew the fruit could be touched only not eaten, that he nevertheless stood there and failed to act not just on Eve’s behalf, but in defense of God’s truth. I raise these issues due to my personal knowledge of their effect upon both the lives and faith of women. God judges the heart, that Eve had to be deceived to eat the fruit, yet Adam only required what he thought was a safe opportunity, means something. It goes straight to the question of intent. Eve fell down speaking what she thought was the truth of God without an initial intent to sin. A manipulative Adam fell down by purposely failing to exalt what he knew was the truth of God. Adam had other motives. Having received the word from God he doubted it. He imagined that perhaps God could be a liar. He wanted the fruit and he was willing to risk the life of Eve to get it. If in fact she lived, then he would know God was indeed a liar and that he too could safely eat the fruit. That Adam was there, most certainly matters.
The real question to ask is why did the serpent trust that Adam would not speak the truth about what God said directly to him regarding the fruit? For some reason he at least suspected Adam would go along with his set-up of Eve and he was right. You cannot dismiss the location of Adam in 3:1-6 as irrelevant. Another question to ask is, where was the surprise of Adam given what Eve said, that God said the fruit could not even be touched. Adam knew that wasn’t the word of God and if he was not the one who even lied to Eve about the touching of the fruit, he would have, and should have expressed surprise by her mistaken belief. He did not, he clearly lied to her. We can’t forget that Adam was the one who directly received the garden commandments from God and was under assignment by God to speak them to Eve. The serpent was the one questioning her to see what she knew, so she didn’t get the lie from him, her information came from a present and now silent Adam.
I agree with you, sin is sin but it is a fact that only Eve is still being punished for her (confessed) sin in the garden, not Adam. Woman are attacked according to creation, call, and authority based upon these garden details in the word. It matters.
Great topic and nice blog.
It sounds to me, during the conversation btw Eve and Satan, that Adam informed Eve about God’s command not to eat of the Tree from the Knowledge of Good and Evil. However she and Adam were both tempted by the wiles of Satan. I believe the true lesson is how easy it is to be tempted even after we fully know right from wrong, and that the example for us to pick up on is that without the Holy Spirit we are defenseless against the influence of Satan.
On a deeper note, there is much more the this particular sin then the eating of mere fruit from a forbidden tree. This eating or sharing of fruit can also be used as a metaphor for seduction/molestation of the innocent children of God.
Notice they became embarrassed at their nakedness, but had already been commanded by God to produce fruit and replenish the earth.
I don’t think Eve is a victim of Adam here. And I don’t believe that Adam was being manipulative. I really just don’t see how you’re finding that in the Scripture. They were both instructed to not eat of the tree. So Eve, knew the same information that Adam knew.
Genesis 3:6 “When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.”
The reason? Because we are sinful human beings. If you do not believe in the total depravity of man then this would be confusing. Why would this happen? We’re selfish. They both sinned. They are both equally responsible for their individual sin.
“It matters that he knew the fruit could be touched only not eaten” – where is this in scripture? Verse 4 says that “you must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.”
“that he nevertheless stood there and failed to act not just on Eve’s behalf, but in defense of God’s truth.” This statement suggests to me that Adam could have stopped Eve from sinning. But you pointedly said that Eve was responsible for her own sin. So it’s not Adam’s fault. It’s hers.
“it is a fact that only Eve is still being punished for her (confessed) sin in the garden, not Adam.” – Are you implying that Adam was not repentant? Where is that in scripture? And God gave curses to BOTH. Male and Female. that is a lie to say that Adam did not receive punishment. (vs 17-19)
“Woman are attacked according to creation, call, and authority based upon these garden details in the word.” I don’t follow this reasoning. Men AND women all have troubles in this world. And children of God definitely have trials. Men have as many issues as women do.
“Adam had other motives. Having received the word from God he doubted it. He imagined that perhaps God could be a liar. He wanted the fruit and he was willing to risk the life of Eve to get it. If in fact she lived, then he would know God was indeed a liar and that he too could safely eat the fruit.” Eve heard the word of God too. She knew that she wasn’t to eat of the tree either. So once again I ask of you, Where is this in the scriptures?
And no, it doesn’t matter who was in the garden. This passage in Scripture is not about a manipulative husband tricking his wife into eating the fruit. They both sinned. You said you agree with that statement, and yet you continue to focus on Adam and not on Eve. Why is this?
I understand that overbearing men are in the church, but don’t twist Scripture to mean something it doesn’t. If Adam and Eve each sinned(which you stated is true) by pointing out that Adam failed to be “a man” you actually ARE admitting that Adam’s sin is greater. You are stating that Adam had a greater responsibility than Eve did. And that, ma’am, I do not agree with.
When I sin, it is not my husband’s fault. When I sin, it is my fault. Self-responsibility is important. Otherwise, why do you need a Savior? Because it would just be everyone else’s fault that I was sinning. They never stepped in and stood up for God’s truth as they should have.
That is a very dangerous and slippery slope.
Either you believe that man is completely depraved and in need of God’s grace or you don’t. In my opinion, if you agree in total depravity, then it doesn’t matter who sinned first or last… all that would matter is that God loved Adam and Eve equally. And His grace was sufficient for them as it is for you and me.
Thank you for your time.
I guess it’s safe to say, we disagree. But as you are a fellow sister in Christ, there is no animosity. I am thankful that God’s grace is big enough for you and me.
Thank you for your comment and I deeply apologize for the length of time it has taken me to address it. I have to start with a question, where in the garden word do you find that the command was to not either eat or touch the fruit? I know you reference Verse 4 but where? Only in 2:17 is the actual command of God concerning the fruit revealed – Adam is commanded only not to eat it. Follow me just two verses above to 2:15 where we know God is establishing purpose for the man in the garden (and yes even a yet to be manifested Eve as help meet), God put the man into the Garden to “dress it and to keep it.” In short, both Adam and Eve were to be caretakers of this garden and as we know fruit that grows if not picked will eventually fall to the ground, hence the “dressing and keeping” of the garden. Notice how God did not prohibit Adam from “touching” the fruit which he just proved to purpose Adam to basically (along with Eve as help meet) be responsible for cleaning up. There is nothing else they could possibly do with fruit whether on the vine or not other than to eat it or remove it from the garden before it rotted. And we know fruit rotted because this is why in 3:6 the woman had to be deceived into believing not only that the fruit was good for food but that it was even “pleasant” to the eyes (compared to all of the surrounding luscious, beautiful fruit it was as fallen as it was rotten). What Adam knew (what he was told by God even before the arrival of Eve) was that he was to dress and keep that garden – this meant touching fallen fruit whether from a tree he was free to actually eat fruit from or not, if not eaten it had to be removed per God’s command. Otherwise we must say, God gave a command in contradiction – it opposed a previously stated purpose already given by Him to mankind. This of course if true makes God fallible and therefore not God because God is Perfect.
I certainly do believe in the total depravity of all mankind whether male or female, however my point is that Adam purposely added to the command of God in 2:17 – he adulterated the Word God gave. Eve in fact proves this in 3:3 when she says God’s command for the fruit of this particular tree was for them to not only not eat it, but they were not to touch it either. Even the tradition of the male pulpit proudly proclaims Adam as both the keeper and giver of God’s word in the garden (yet another reason given for barring the female to preach). They teach us that every word Eve got from God in the garden came through Adam. Keep in mind Adam is standing right there, he is present watching the deceit of the enemy unfold as it has been purposed against Eve, he said nothing. This is a married couple, Adam’s first loyalty was to God and then to his wife – he knew the command by God was death if she ate the fruit and again he said nothing. We don’t know specifically how Eve came to see that the fruit was good for food but the enemy knew the lie that Eve believed and it was a lie that began with Adam (saying that the fruit could neither be touched or eaten). If I can convince you that it is safe to “touch” the fruit the door of doubt is then swung wide open, again remember Adam is standing right there. At no point did he care enough to offer up the truth. He didn’t care enough about God and he didn’t care enough about his wife proving only that Adam was already existing in a state of deception. Eve at least had to be tricked into eating the fruit, the only thing holding Adam back was the idea that eating it may cost him his life – it certainly had nothing to do with any regard or respect he had for the things in and of God. Now Eve was in fact still responsible in the sense that she could have sought God out for herself at anytime. She knew she was not to eat that fruit but in her moment of doubt did she reach out to God? No, she gave in to temptation instead which is why when asked by God her words in 3:13 ring true to a confession of her sin: “the serpent beguiled me and I did eat.” Between the two, only Eve could say she was tricked, Adam on the other hand made a calculated decision to do the evil. I am no longer offended to hear that Eve was tricked, this is a better word for the female than that she, like Adam, simply purposed to do it. I am not speaking against the male here but the enemy has been allowed even by the Church to perpetually beat the female down due to a confessed sin (remember 3:13) from the garden.
You said: “Are you implying that Adam was not repentant? Where is that in scripture? And God gave curses to BOTH. Male and Female. that is a lie to say that Adam did not receive punishment. (vs 17-19)” With all due respect, I am not just implying that within the confines of the garden Adam was not repentant for me it is an outright statement. Where you find a repentant garden Adam? The punishment God gave to Adam (and I certainly do not deny he was punished by God only that he is not still continually punished by a male pulpit as Eve to this day still is), was purposed to cause a proud, accusing Adam to be repentant for his sins. The severe harshness of the punishment only speaks to how much God already knew it would take to penetrate his heart for the good. God is not malicious and he only does that which is for our good.
You said: “Woman are attacked according to creation, call, and authority based upon these garden details in the word.” I don’t follow this reasoning. Men AND women all have troubles in this world. And children of God definitely have trials. Men have as many issues as women do. All I can say to that is, within the Christian experience men don’t even begin to fight the same battles as women in the church, no comparison. Yes there are areas of suffering and challenge that are common to both but men do not experience the denial of call based on gender, they don’t suffer the humiliation of female subjugation and nor do they daily battle subsequent hypocrisy inherently created by male tradition in the minds and lives of females that we must nevertheless find a way to muster up love and service to God anyway in his church. We even have composed a song about the fire in Jeremiah to preach God’s word, but that she must often remain silent proves nothing about the reality of the holocaust of denied call taking place within her. How can our experiences be equal? We are subject to experience the same disappoints, traumas and failures in life as men and women yet only the female is expected to ignore the call of God and to as a second-class citizen of the kingdom submit to her subjugation.
I said: “Adam had other motives. Having received the word from God he doubted it. He imagined that perhaps God could be a liar. He wanted the fruit and he was willing to risk the life of Eve to get it. If in fact she lived, then he would know God was indeed a liar and that he too could safely eat the fruit.” Eve heard the word of God too. She knew that she wasn’t to eat of the tree either. So once again I ask of you, Where is this in the scriptures?
And then You said: And no, it doesn’t matter who was in the garden. This passage in Scripture is not about a manipulative husband tricking his wife into eating the fruit. They both sinned. You said you agree with that statement, and yet you continue to focus on Adam and not on Eve. Why is this?
I do agree that sin is sin, I focus on both the motives of Adam and Eve simply because it is God who looks at the matters of our heart – I am following his example. From the heart flow the issues of life. Yes it really does matter what is at the root of a thing because that has everything to do with the fruit. This is why we are to guard our hearts and to keep a pure heart.
You said: I understand that overbearing men are in the church, but don’t twist Scripture to mean something it doesn’t. If Adam and Eve each sinned(which you stated is true) by pointing out that Adam failed to be “a man” you actually ARE admitting that Adam’s sin is greater. You are stating that Adam had a greater responsibility than Eve did. And that, ma’am, I do not agree with.
When I say that Adam failed to be a “man” I am only referring to what is the actual Hebrew definition of the type of man Adam presents himself to be before an unsuspecting Eve in 2:23. The name “Adam” is synonymous with the word “man” but what the church fails to teach is there are two definitions in the Hebrew for the word “man” and while both appear in the garden word only one EVER applies to a “man” who is first called an “Adam” by God. The first use of “man” which means the same as the name of “Adam” means (Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible) to be “ruddy” (as in ashamed), a hypocrite, a mean man of low degree, common sort. The meaning of the second use of the word “man” which Adam in 2:23 illegally applies to himself means to be “champion, a husband, a man of high degree, without adultery.” Make a study of the Hebrew (start with Genesis 2:23) in the garden and you will see far more then the traditionally church has ever sought to teach because it simply does not suit them to do so. Research the meanings of: Adam, Eve, man, woman, male, female, cleave, even flesh. And when it comes to the garden word as in many other areas of Scripture, you have to look for what is left unsaid and then judge how that compares to what we know is the actually will of God. For instance, God used just a bone from Adam to create Eve yet as we know from Genesis 2:24 his desire was to actually use his flesh. Why then was the flesh of Adam rejected? Word states in 2:21 that God even “closed up the flesh instead thereof.”
Again I agree with you. It really shouldn’t matter who sinned first, two people fell in the garden – but the reason it does matter is because we still fail to tell the truth. A fallen Eve made confession in 3:13 and by the Fifth Chapter we know that even an initially proud, accusing Adam eventually saw his change. But again, it matters because the enemy has still been allowed to attack both the full creation, purpose and call of the female. Everyday she is still lied to even by the church about who she really is. Our identity in Christ matters? Who among us teaches that it doesn’t? It is true that the impact of this is not always relevant in the life of all Christians whether male or female, but not even one of us should ever be caught calling the work of the enemy good. Yet that is exactly what we do when we like a selfish and proud garden Adam are pleased to allow the attack of the enemy to adulterate the very word of God. I understand that truth can hurt but what is the actual Truth of God matters – we do not get to change the story, He isn’t.
Sorry my reply is so long but the garden word is so inter-connected it is very difficult to discuss one aspect without flowing into another to provide greater understanding for basis of thought! God bless!